I'm Proud Of Spain And Their Use Of Real Democracy

When 90% Say No To No Avail, It's Not Democracy

Published on April 21, 2004 By mikimouse In Politics

The US is leading the charge against Spain and saying their actions are a victory for the terrorists. But of course that is the ignorant way of looking at it. Let's think. What's democracy? It's being able to vote for representatives who will represent them. One-person-one-vote. We know this. So when 90% of Spain was telling their politicians: "Don't send the men to Iraq without the UN, don't send them to war or false pretenses" and their politicians sent them anyways to suck up the US, that's not democracy. The huge majority of Spain said no, so their leaders should have listened. The new leader has acted like a true representative of his people. As opposition leader, he said if elected he would recall the troops back to Spain. And he did. When was the last time a US president followed through with his pre-election promises? Think about it for a year. Good luck. Thank the Lord there is a government somewhere who actually listens to its people and responds in kind. Sending troops to Iraq over huge majority protests was a travesty of democracy which should have infuriated the free world. But instead an act of true and real democracy is villified as wrong and they take to cowardly position by saying it's supporting terrorists. I don't support terrorists. I support democracy. Do you?

Comments (Page 4)

Frogboy

on Apr 26, 2004

Most Americans support the war in Iraq. In fact, at the time the war started, Americans favored military action against Iraq by 67% to less than 20% against according to CNN/Washington Post poll.

Therefore, all people who complain about the US action in Iraq are anti-Democracy right? France and Germany and what not are just trying to "strong arm" the will of the American people.

It works both ways my friends.

shadesofgrey

on Apr 26, 2004

France and Germany and what not are just trying to "strong arm" the will of the American people.

Not exactly, France and Germany were saying that they were not going to support the war, and that they were voting against the UN intervening. If France and Germany had strong armed the US into not going to war, that would be undemocratic --but they didn't they simply said they weren't taking part. (I'm just agreeing with your polls, though for every pro-war poll you give, I am sure counter with an anti-war poll).

People have the right to voice their opinions, that is not anti-democratic.

messybuu

on Apr 26, 2004

Then doesn't the U.S. have the right to voice its opinions on Spain's actions?

shadesofgrey

on Apr 26, 2004

I shoud rephrase that "citizens within a democracy have a right to voice opinions about the rule of said democracy."

No the US has no place voicing opinions about what Spain should do.

Frogboy

on Apr 26, 2004

You're just trying to have it both ways. If the Spanish people don't want to be involved in Iraq then good for them. That's their right. But at the same time, Americans DO want to be involved in Iraq and the "world community" needs to get off our collective asses. Bush isn't going against the will of the people, he is carrying out its will.

Frogboy

on Apr 26, 2004

No the US has no place voicing opinions about what Spain should do.

But Germany and France has a right to voice opinions about what the United States should do? Total hypocricy.

shadesofgrey

on Apr 26, 2004

I'm sorry but that's a load of shit, shades. Germany and France certainly applied a lot more pressure against the US than the US has put on Spain. Have you seen massive protests in the United States calling Spain "Chamberlain"? No. Has the US put on any sanctions on Spain? No.
You're just trying to have it both ways. If the Spanish people don't want to be involved in Iraq then good for them. That's their right. But at the same time, Americans DO want to be involved in Iraq and the "world community" needs to get off our collective asses. Bush isn't going against the will of the people, he is carrying out its will.

I think we are talking about two different things--I'm talking about governments and you are talking about people. I would agree...what the US decides to do is between the US government and its people. But there is a difference between people marching in London and Paris, and Bush putting leaning on the new Spanish PM to change his mind.

shadesofgrey

on Apr 26, 2004

But Germany and France has a right to voice opinions about what the United States should do? Total hypocricy

I didn't say that. I said that Germany and France had a right to vote against UN involvment.

Solitair

on Apr 27, 2004

I think people are mixing up governments and citizens.

Many citizens from many countries have protested against the Iraq war. The UK is a prime example of this, where almost 2 million took part in a single protest. Nothing wrong with that they have a right to express their opinions.

Many government have oppossed or supported the war and again there is nothing wrong with this. The UK actively supports the war, France passively opposses it.

Active responses however are wrong and impinge on the soveignty of the countries involved. Boycotts, trade embargos, threats or even military action, are all unacceptable ways of expressing disagreement. In fact it was on this very point that France, Russia and China refused to support a UN resolution. They felt they was insufficient evidence to allow for Iraq's soveignty to be challenged. Even the UK stated that it was only suppoorting a war to remove WMD and NOT Saddam.

I personally believe that the US government or its citizens are entitled to express it's opinion of Spain's decision. Any attempt to actively effect the decision would be wrong though. Likewise France, Germany and the UK government or their citizens are entitled to express their views on America's decisions.

Paul.

mikimouse

on Apr 27, 2004

opinions of course are and should always be welcome. But not actions against democracy.

messybuu

on Apr 27, 2004

The governments might not be anti-democracy if they aren't saying or doing anything to show disapproval, but the people of such countries definitely are for condemning the U.S.' practice of real democracy.

mikimouse

on Apr 27, 2004

I don't agree with that.

messybuu

on Apr 27, 2004

So, you agree that if people complain about Spain's use of real democracy, that they aren't anti-democracy? If not, then I guess it's only anti-democracy to oppose actions you support.

mikimouse

on Apr 27, 2004

huh? I'm all for truth and real democracy. When a go'vt ignores it's people, it's not democracy. Right or wrong.

Plaps

on Apr 28, 2004

Spain used democracy - good
Spain left Iraq - bad

Why bad? Because it teaches the terrorists that whenever someone does something to the Spanish, the Spanish are willing to wuss out and leave. That's the mindset of all Europeans - appeasement. It's never worked and it never will, yet the Europeans are only willing to use that method. These people have a law of vendetta people, an eye for an eye sort of unwritten law if you will. IF you never stand up to bullies, all they'll do is knock you around. The US understands this, why doesn't Europe?

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!